Debi Goenka, treasurer, Bombay Natural History Society — a petitioner against the Forest Rights Act in the Supreme Court — tells Business Standard that tribals want bikes, cars and washing machines and not life in the jungle.

Why have you challenged the Forest Rights Act in the Supreme Court?

We believe that there is not enough forest left to give four acres to every tribal. Besides we don't believe that tribals need the forests.

But the tribals are being given legal entitlements to land they are already using and no fresh land is being given.

There is no evidence of what the tribals have and there is no way to prove it.

Isn't the Act also about empowering the tribals to protect the forests rather than leaving it to a few forest officials?

I don't believe tribals can protect forests. The taluk in Thane where Pradeep Prabhu, one of the drafters of the Act lives, has no wildlife left. Each tribal boy there has a catapult in his pocket and he shoots down the first bird he sees.

The North East allows communities to look after forests. But there also wildlife is endangered. What do you think they eat? In a forest what can they survive on but wildlife?

You would rather trust a few forest officials despite the fact that 500,000 hectare of forest have been lost in the last five years — as much as was lost in the previous 20 years?

Let me make it clear; we don't represent the government or the forest officials. We want to protect forests and wildlife. And we believe that tribals don't need the forests.

You ask the tribals and they would say they would like to leave the jungles and live in cities, own bikes and cars, washing machines and other gadgets. What do they earn from a forest but subsistence livelihood?

If you want the tribals out of the jungles, what is the alternative being offered to them?

That is what the National Rural Employment Guarantee Programme is for.

But aren't the wildlife and natural resources safer with tribals as it is linked with their culture and is part of their habitat?

What culture are you talking about. Have you been to a tribal village? The tribals have no concept of individual ownership of land. The Act is thrusting it on them.

The Act originally did not want individual ownership of land. But hasn't community lands been taken away by governments and donated to industry, as in the case of Orissa? Have you protested against that?

The tribal lobby was used by politicians to get in individual ownership into the Act. We are against any force which destroys forests. I don't think tribals who burn five acres of forests every year are protecting them.

What about government handing over mountains to power companies to blast into with dynamites in Arunachal and Sikkim which are home to rare wildlife species? Have you protested?

We did protest against some hydel projects in Sikkim.

Is there a petition in a court of law?

No. We complained to Forest department and Environment Ministry.

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